Printers of Discworld Cinderellas
Printed From: Cinderella Stamps Forum
Category: Cinderella Stamps
Forum Name: Cinderella Stamps
Forum Description: Discuss your stamps and collections here, latest acquisitions, wish lists and favourites...
URL: https://www.cinderellastampsforum.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=77
Printed Date: 26 March 2026 at 16:48
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Topic: Printers of Discworld Cinderellas
Posted By: Keith
Subject: Printers of Discworld Cinderellas
Date Posted: 02 May 2010 at 04:38
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I was boring my brother senseless yesterday with tales of the great Lawyers' Guild apostrophe and paper debacle and, as he slumped senseless to the floor I thought "I wonder which printers have produced which DW stamps?". I know that Enchede were used for some of the early stamps but beyond that vague piece of info I know nothing. I can't find it anywhere Discworld related. Can anyone throw any light on this? Keith |
Replies:
Posted By: Hilary
Date Posted: 05 May 2010 at 10:30
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An Irish company did the Unseen University stamps. More recently it's been the lovely gents in Somerset at Rose Mills. But for the greater part of the Discworld stamp history, the only person who can tell you is Colin, who kept it a closely guarded secret, which not even Bernard and Isobel were privy to. You can try asking him......
------------- With a memory full of ships, and seas, and perilous headlands, and the shining Pharos, he must apply his long sighted eyes to the petty niceties of drawing. - Robert Louis Stevenson |
Posted By: Colin
Date Posted: 05 May 2010 at 23:09
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hi Keith! What mischief!
I'm not going to get drawn into this on a public forum.
Suffice to say that invoices for printing were sent to the shop - so I can only assume they knew, and were happy with, whoever they had contracted to provide their finished products - no great secrets there.
The reality is that the best 'Trade' printers do not even hang a sign over their door, and do not seek publicity for their work, for whatever reason, and I will continue to respect that. ------------- My Etsy shop - FarFetchedPhilately - Check regularly for updates and special offers... https://www.etsy.com/uk/shop/FarFetchedPhilately . |
Posted By: Keith
Date Posted: 06 May 2010 at 02:09
How odd!  No mischief intended. I can't begin to think why there should be even the slightest coyness about the printing process and who did what. I think every book I have says who printed it; every stamp catalogue I have lists the printers of every stamp.
Discworld stamps seem odd like that. Secretive about small things. I was hoping to entertain and engage our Discworld-collecting members. I'll have to think of some other arcane question instead.
Keith
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Posted By: Murgatroyd
Date Posted: 06 May 2010 at 02:41
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I would guess that there is a degree of concern that some unscrupulous collector might make an approach to the printer in question and try and obtain any old sheets or artwork that they might still have on hand as samples of their work. Obviously I don't mean you in this context Keith, but there's always a chance that there's someone out there somewhere who might try it. The printer won't want bozos coming round to their place of work and bothering them about that sort of thing. Even if they don't have any old Discworld stuff on hand, (and I'm sure that it's part of the deal that they don't), there's always the possibility that they might still print up other Cinderella stamps... I'm sure they don't want shady looking types rummaging through their garbage in the hope of finding something rare and resalable. Not divulging their identity is a purely a matter of courtesy and good business practice. ------------- "I've got twenty minutes to save the world and I've got a Post Office, and it's shut." The Raggedy Doctor. |
Posted By: Keith
Date Posted: 06 May 2010 at 02:52
I can see that being bothered by bozos would be a bad thing. But I thought we were discussing, at least in the early days, proper security printers. Like Cartor, or Enchede or De La Rue or Irish Security Stamp Printing. These guys print, say, British and Irish Stamps and are proud to be known for that and do it without secrecy. I've never heard of them having problems with queues of shady characters waiting for a rummage in their bins. 
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Posted By: Colin
Date Posted: 06 May 2010 at 05:46
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Hi Keith, printers are peculiar fellows.
I have the greatest of respect for my printers, some of whom I have worked with for nearly 30 years and if I am asked not to reveal their identity I will not do so.
The majority of printers of Discworld stamps were not security printers or stamp printers, just excellent quality jobbing printers. 'Trade' printers print all sorts of material for all sorts of people (frequently overflow work from other printers) and do not encourage visitors to see their presses or their customer book. As I said earlier some of the best ones do not even show any external sign of being printers, a bit of a pain when you are trying to track them down.
As for security printers not being bothered about 'bozos' pinching stuff from their bins - I couldn't get into Enschede without bringing my passport for ID. Printers who print stamps and currency are in fact very, very touchy and wouldn't even allow me to see their presses running. Competition for work and reputation between specialised stamp printers is very tight and confidentiality is absolutely everything.
I suppose part of the reason for the secretiveness of some aspects of producing the DW stamps is that we (designers, illustrators, marketing folks and collectors) have all convinced ourselves to a greater or lesser degree that the stamps were printed in Ankh-Morpork. Revealing who did precisely what, and when, and how, seems to take the fantasy out of it.
Something entertaining and engaging to discuss perhaps? And applicable to all fantasy cinderella issues, not only DW.
How far should reality and fantasy overlap? It amuses me that the discussion would frequently come up that the printers in A-M would not have had access to modern digital or litho processes. Yet buyers are still happy to overlook details such as on the recent 'colour test' that has white lettering reversed out of (ie not printed with inks, letting the white paper show through) the coloured stamps that were supposed to be being 'tested'.
Apart from the impracticality of obscuring how the colour affects the design area of each stamp - the very factor being tested - this would never have been economical or practical with old technology.
To have removed by hand the inkable areas from a traditional hot metal plate, in each separation of each colour used, and in perfect registration, in order to achieve a reversed out white lettering that would only be seen briefly by the handful of people approving the stamp colour, would have been unthinkable. Printers in those days would have just over-printed the title in all-concealing black, or discretely rubber stamped it by hand, or more likely would have lightly and reverently handwritten in pencil the title in the margin, and defintely not all over their labours of love - the stamps themselves.
So how far should imagination take over from reality in such things? ------------- My Etsy shop - FarFetchedPhilately - Check regularly for updates and special offers... https://www.etsy.com/uk/shop/FarFetchedPhilately . |
Posted By: Steve
Date Posted: 06 May 2010 at 06:50
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This explains why the Welsh Oddities series has been a bit sparse on the details of the printers. That's my excuse anyway. Lack of detail is not through lack of research.
------------- https://www.facebook.com/pages/The-Discworld-Stamp-Collector/809424215750892" rel="nofollow - The Discworld Stamp Collector on FaceBook Have a look! |
Posted By: Colin
Date Posted: 06 May 2010 at 08:05
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I was telling Alan earlier today about an ad agency colleague of ours who asked a (young) designer about who was going to be printing their company's brochure. Its being printed by Heidelberg she said, in Norwich, and they are one of the oldest printers in the industry... She had picked it up from reading a webpage and was adamant that she knew exactly what she was talking about. Of course, Heidelberg is the name of one of the oldest printing press manufacturers, not the company that run the press. ------------- My Etsy shop - FarFetchedPhilately - Check regularly for updates and special offers... https://www.etsy.com/uk/shop/FarFetchedPhilately . |
Posted By: Daniel
Date Posted: 06 May 2010 at 12:39
It is a little bit odd that a printing company doesn't want to be identified, maybe they don't need any new business (or they work for MI5 ), but if that is their wish then clearly Colin has to respect that. Maybe it's sufficient to know that they are not security printers and so would not be familiar to us anyway. I think that those of us from a philatelic background are more interested in knowing things like the printer so Keith isn't alone in his mischief.
More generally, I've always found it strange that, on the Discworld forum, whenever someone has had a technical question which could readily be answered by No.41, it is left to other forum members to conjecture.
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Posted By: Colin
Date Posted: 06 May 2010 at 21:18
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Some 'Trade' printers are set up to only handle business from other printers. They rely on their reputations to do their advertising for them. Traditionally printers specialised in different types of work - some would be known best for their single or two colour work; some for their full colour, six or eight colour work. So for example a single or two colour printer can take on bigger projects by subbing the job out and still maintain their business relationship with their customers. Trade printers rarely have reps out on the road stirring up new business. I suppose much of it goes back to the Guild days when printing was a bit of a black art and it was all about knowing who had the right press to produce your work.
Nowadays trade printers are more likely to find thir business due to economic reasons. A trade printer might be able to run three production shifts where a smaller printer might only keep office hours, or will work bank holidays and seasonal breaks, and will be fed work from smaller printers who will shut down on those occasions.
It might seem arcane but it works, printing is a very social business and there are strong bonds (and a great deal of friendly competition) betweeen different firms local and nationally, staff will often 'transfer' from one firm to another according to their skillset, often when a machine becomes out of date and is sold, the staff who specialised in operating that machine will move with it.
To most printers our little bits of paper are no more than that. I haven't yet met a philatelist printer - which is a pity because I would absolutely make the most of that! Alan and I are currently involved in a project where we hope to be able to employ some traditional presses and technology - and possibly the last generation of craftsmen trained to operate them - on some very special stamps next year. ------------- My Etsy shop - FarFetchedPhilately - Check regularly for updates and special offers... https://www.etsy.com/uk/shop/FarFetchedPhilately . |
Posted By: Colin
Date Posted: 06 May 2010 at 21:25
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As for why the shop don't answer technical enquiries on their forum - I know from personal experience how difficult it is to try to explain technical stuff (here in this thread for example!). It can take some of the mystery away and turn precious collectables into transient paper giftware.
I don't suppose Terry's books or Bernard's sculptures would be any more interesting if they told us all the how and why. Perhaps there is such a thing as too much information and in this Google-able world we need to learn where to draw a line. ------------- My Etsy shop - FarFetchedPhilately - Check regularly for updates and special offers... https://www.etsy.com/uk/shop/FarFetchedPhilately . |
Posted By: Susanne
Date Posted: 08 May 2010 at 01:13
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It's always been my experience that any tidbit of information about the DW stamps would only get us all more excited about our collections (and usually got us to buy more!). (Just for the record, not engaging in any mischief, just making an observation |
). I know what Daniel means in regards to those questions being ignored. It was always an incredibly awkward feeling to ask a seemingly innocent question and to be met with silence (sometimes you didn't even get speculation from other members!). If the purpose was to keep some of the fantasy alive, or if a matter of confidentiality was involved, then a fun, evasive answer would have worked better I think. ANYWAY! My point was that I think DW stamp collectors just genuinely get a kick out of knowing these things.Posted By: Steve
Date Posted: 08 May 2010 at 01:55
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There does seem to be a little problem in keeping two camps happy. Those who are buying into their bit of Discworld, and those who are philatelically minded. It is disappointing though to have posts ignored by the forum members and the official source of information. Happens too often imo. Worst is where one has continued the thread with a question, but the next post harks back to something several posts back which then dominates the thread. You then don't know whether your question has just got lost, or whether there's a deliberate attempt to divert attention to the question. ------------- https://www.facebook.com/pages/The-Discworld-Stamp-Collector/809424215750892" rel="nofollow - The Discworld Stamp Collector on FaceBook Have a look! |
Posted By: Colin
Date Posted: 08 May 2010 at 05:01
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Perhaps you should try emailing Ian direct and (with his permission) post what you find out on the forum? Maybe like a lot of artists once his work is 'out there' he is more concerned with what he is doing next rather than what went before and simply isn't interested in writing it all down anymore. If someone asked and then reported it back on his behalf it might be easier for him. Or suggest a page in the Stanley Howler Journal which provides some history and detail about individual stamps? ------------- My Etsy shop - FarFetchedPhilately - Check regularly for updates and special offers... https://www.etsy.com/uk/shop/FarFetchedPhilately . |
Posted By: Keith
Date Posted: 08 May 2010 at 06:02
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Colin wrote:Posted By: Colin
Date Posted: 09 May 2010 at 06:06
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We've got a load of hoops to go through before we know we can do what we want to do, but these will very special. We will make sure that the people selling them have plenty available and you will be the very first (swiftly followed by a posting on the forum) to know that they are available. If they are the only stamps we get to do next year we will be very very happy :-) ------------- My Etsy shop - FarFetchedPhilately - Check regularly for updates and special offers... https://www.etsy.com/uk/shop/FarFetchedPhilately . |
Posted By: Steve
Date Posted: 09 May 2010 at 06:18
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only ???? next year???? ------------- https://www.facebook.com/pages/The-Discworld-Stamp-Collector/809424215750892" rel="nofollow - The Discworld Stamp Collector on FaceBook Have a look! |
Posted By: Jonty
Date Posted: 09 May 2010 at 06:24
Maybe Colin's doing enough to supply a small country
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Posted By: Colin
Date Posted: 09 May 2010 at 21:16
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There was an 'IF' at the bginning of that sentence! But I am going to be stepping back a bit.
I had some great news yesterday that my Dad should be out of hospital very soon - maybe even at the end of this week - so I have to make allowances for helping out with his care and stamps may have to take a bit of a back seat in the short-term. ------------- My Etsy shop - FarFetchedPhilately - Check regularly for updates and special offers... https://www.etsy.com/uk/shop/FarFetchedPhilately . |
Posted By: Jonty
Date Posted: 10 May 2010 at 00:27
| That's great news Colin, Family always comes first |
Posted By: Colin
Date Posted: 10 May 2010 at 01:03
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Thanks Jonty. He has still got a long way to go and while we are looking forward to getting him home we also know it is going to be a huge strain on my Mum.
A few stampy things have slipped already (The personalised Penny Jacks for example! Sorry!) but I have talked to Alan this morning and I think there are still a few things we can do for this year once everything has settled down. ------------- My Etsy shop - FarFetchedPhilately - Check regularly for updates and special offers... https://www.etsy.com/uk/shop/FarFetchedPhilately . |
Posted By: Jonty
Date Posted: 11 May 2010 at 03:11
Don't worry about it mate, see last message I posted on this thread. You will bounce back when everythings settled 
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Posted By: Susanne
Date Posted: 12 May 2010 at 23:55
| Ditto. Family first. Everything else will fall into place on it's own. |
Posted By: Colin
Date Posted: 13 May 2010 at 01:42
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Thanks folks. I am now very aware that I have railroaded this thread into a personal discussion and away from the original topic - so apologies for that. Admin will not be happy ;-)
So to reroute the discussion back to printing of stamps in general - and not just DW output...
Some cinderellas in my collection are cheaply printed yet I put them above others which are beautifully produced because they are more interesting to look at. So - is the quality of printing really important when producing a stamp, or is the idea behind the stamps more important? ------------- My Etsy shop - FarFetchedPhilately - Check regularly for updates and special offers... https://www.etsy.com/uk/shop/FarFetchedPhilately . |
Posted By: Keith
Date Posted: 13 May 2010 at 04:55
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In my opinion you need Several thing. The design idea has to be interesting; the actual artwork well executed and the printing to be as high a quality as needed to show the first two off properly. Great art badly reproduced will be awful and poor art well reproduced will always be poor.
Keith |
Posted By: Murgatroyd
Date Posted: 13 May 2010 at 05:18
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I think that it's equally important that the stamp in question relates to a subject or theme that you find interesting... I wouldn't buy a Cinderella stamp just because it was a Cinderella... ------------- "I've got twenty minutes to save the world and I've got a Post Office, and it's shut." The Raggedy Doctor. |
Posted By: Susanne
Date Posted: 13 May 2010 at 23:51
I think it depends on the subject. There may be times when being cheaply printed, or having cheaper paper contributes to the look of authenticity. Don't know if that makes sense. It's early here! 
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Posted By: Daniel
Date Posted: 19 November 2010 at 14:38
| I thought that I would revive this thread, not out of mischief, but because a debate has been raging on the Discworld Forum over digitally printed stamps from the early days of the stamps (when I say raging it is mainly between Steve and myself) it having been revealed that some year 1 10p Morporkia Green stamps were produced this way. Now, bearing in mind that most of us no longer believe in Father Christmas (and I have my doubts about the Easter Bunny) I had come to the conclusion that the year 1 non-Enschede stamps, i.e. the Bath and Wincanton perfed stamps, were all digitally printed (a digitally printed year 1 Penny Patrician was also included in some year 4 anniversary LBES) and I had attributed this to Bernard but now suspect it was Colin. So, am I right, or did you use one of your trade printers? |
Posted By: Colin
Date Posted: 19 November 2010 at 23:24
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Hi Daniel - the short answer is that I couldn't comment without actually seeing the specific stamps involved.
Also from reading the thread on the DW forum I think there is some confusion between references to stamps printed digitally on professional quality systems, and those produced in-house at the shop, but again I couldn't comment without actually seeing the stamps under discussion. ------------- My Etsy shop - FarFetchedPhilately - Check regularly for updates and special offers... https://www.etsy.com/uk/shop/FarFetchedPhilately . |
Posted By: Steve
Date Posted: 20 November 2010 at 02:36
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There you have it Daniel. Isn't that "I couldn't possibly comment" phrase a wonderful one - though here it doesn't get the FU (Francis Urquhart) inflections.
Anyway, I wasn't actually disputing that the Wincanton and Bath perfed stamps were or weren't digitally printed. What I wanted to find out was why the 'digital patrician' (year one, but released in year four) andthe Pseudopolis letters had a write up that suggested that these were different from what had been released back in 2004. The patrician seems to very very similar to the Wincanton perfed stamps. Similar enough to be the same, except there are some very fine detail differences, but these are perhaps a matter of opinion and me wanting to see a difference. The 10p greens are a different matter. One the three Pseudopolis letters there are three different printings. And despite being informed that the first letter had a digitally printed stamp, the letter I have is almost certainly an Enschede printed example. But the two other letters have stamps clearly from different sources. While both are Wincanton perfed, they are quite different shades of green, different resolutions, appear to be from different revisions of artwork, printed on different paper, and are different in size by about 1mm. Clearly these 3 stamps are from different printings. If the definitely digitally printed stamps can be from different batches, it is not unreasonable to suspect taht this may apply to other values too. And that what the shop was meaning to say by refering to 'original digital printings' in regard to the Pseudopolis letters was that these are in fact from different printings than the Wincanton perfed stamps released in 2004. There may have been other print runs, distuinguishable from each other, that have been all rolled up into a single lump and called Wincanton perfed. I really hoped Bernard may have stepped in to to explain what he had meant by stressing that these more recent issues were digitally produced. ------------- https://www.facebook.com/pages/The-Discworld-Stamp-Collector/809424215750892" rel="nofollow - The Discworld Stamp Collector on FaceBook Have a look! |
Posted By: Colin
Date Posted: 20 November 2010 at 02:46
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OK - I didn't say I couldn't possibly comment.
Just that I would be better able to comment if I could see the actual stamps rather than scans or descriptions.
Bring them along to Stampex Daniel and I will tell you what I can.
------------- My Etsy shop - FarFetchedPhilately - Check regularly for updates and special offers... https://www.etsy.com/uk/shop/FarFetchedPhilately . |
Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: 13 January 2012 at 07:43
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Wasn't the easiest way to distinguish Wincanton 'digital' printing from Norfolk digital printing just a question of looking at the back of the stamps? The Norfolk ones had a textured gum whereas the Wincanton version of digital printing was printed on a smooth surfaced gum.
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