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Discworld Clean ear Patrician

Printed From: Cinderella Stamps Forum
Category: Cinderella Stamps
Forum Name: Cinderella Stamps
Forum Description: Discuss your stamps and collections here, latest acquisitions, wish lists and favourites...
URL: http://www.cinderellastampsforum.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=1326
Printed Date: 19 September 2018 at 16:05


Topic: Discworld Clean ear Patrician
Posted By: Daniel
Subject: Discworld Clean ear Patrician
Date Posted: 15 May 2018 at 08:17
I recently acquired one of the mini-sheets of 6 Clean Ear Patricians, cat.no. SHS 0038 C, from 'The Year of the Signifying Frog' or 2005 to those of us not up on Discworld years. There seemed to be discrepancies in the Discworld catalogue where 3 mini-sheets are listed but only one is stated to be a 'sport' (a deliberate error in general philatelic terms), that is, the missing dot sport. In the catalogue, the Clean Ear Patrician is not recognised as a sport in itself. After consulting Colin, the designer, he confirmed that it was a sport.

I have posted on the Discworld Forum but, although much viewed, no-one has responded. Can anyone here add any new information on the 3 mini-sheets?

Thank you.



Replies:
Posted By: phalarope
Date Posted: 19 May 2018 at 03:34
I'm one of the viewers on the CA Forum, and I interpreted your post as simply new and useful information, not a question as such.  I don't have any more information on the 3 mini-sheets than you do, but I would consider whatever Colin has said as the most accurate.  It is confusing that the sheet letter designations don't match those of the individual stamps.  Sheet B = stamp Dw, sheets C & D = stamp Bw.  It's up to Steve to modify the catalogue listing, should he choose to do so.

I'm flummoxed by the Penny Patrician Black Pink, SHS-AM0038-Cm, which looks like a Clean Ear, but catalogued with machine perforations.  It's listed as a "Very Rare Item".  What's the story around these?  Are they really machine perfed?


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Cheers -

phalarope



'The world is full of signals that we don't perceive.'

-- Stephen Jay Gould, (1941-2002) paleontologist, evolutionary biologist, science historian

Oysters have 4 lips.


Posted By: Carole
Date Posted: 23 May 2018 at 11:55
Originally posted by phalarope phalarope wrote:

I'm flummoxed by the Penny Patrician Black Pink, SHS-AM0038-Cm, which looks like a Clean Ear, but catalogued with machine perforations.  It's listed as a "Very Rare Item".  What's the story around these?  Are they really machine perfed?

From what I can see on the sheet page and from what I remember these stamps are all Wincanton perf, at this point anything new was, I think Wincanton perfed, unfortunately as the perfs are not shown and as I dont have a Cm variant I cant be 100% sure of this (Colin should know).

You are correct, it does appear to be a clean ear sport and its also missing the full stop, so it is the same as SHS-AM0038-Dw (clean ear and missing dot) but with a red shift.

The catalogue I think develops as new things are sent to Steve (I have some scans to send him of variations in stuff) so the red shift stamp Cm probably arrived on his desk before the Dw and he may not have noticed its also the sport.

As to its rarity as they were printed as small sheets of stamps at the base of ?TOA sheets it likely is very rare, as it would be a part of a sheet of only 6 stamps (Penny Patrician Black Mini Blue SHE-0038-B). It is as Colin says a deliberate sport, in facts is a double sport.

Let Steve know its also a sport, he is happy for anyone to point things out where there are issues or at least to discuss why things are as they are.




Posted By: Colin
Date Posted: 23 May 2018 at 22:23
"Colin should know..."

I'm just as flummoxed as you are - but by the codenames, the stamps named after the collectors who found them, and the various (sometimes incorrect) mythologies that developed after the artwork had left my studio and gone into circulation.  I had no control over what went into LBEs, numbers released or when, or what was given away to shop visitors. Back then no-one expected the stamps to become so fastidiously collected so no proper records were kept, sports were just a way of keeing the interest going. 

Sometimes I find stuff in my office and have to dig through both the two Steve's websites in order to identify it in a way that makes it meaningful to collectors.  What is identifiable on my artwork files as 'moved bird_left' becomes 'new splash' or something less meaningful to me. Don't get me started on the Noggin and Jonty Tower of Art stamps...  

Or the 'pink', 'blue' or 'blurry' stamps with an issue release number - but which are simply printing errors, not deliberately artworked sports in their own right.  

That and it being 15 years since some of these stamps were designed.

I am sure with time, patience, and the thankless generosity of those people who so carefully catalogue the stamps (when really it's about time responsibility for this was taken over by the shop - at least with the new issues), all things will eventually become clear.


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Happiness doesn't come from getting something we don't have, but through recognising and appreciating what we do have.


Posted By: Steve
Date Posted: 24 May 2018 at 12:07
I just try to collect information abut the stamps as and when I see them online. Often it is problematical when new items appear. Trying to add them to my listings is fraught with issues. Sometimes I find I have the same thing twice due to different descriptions used, but trying to squeeze something totally new in means a fudge may be needed. I just try my best. Often I am as confused as anybody else

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https://www.facebook.com/pages/The-Discworld-Stamp-Collector/809424215750892" rel="nofollow - The Discworld Stamp Collector on FaceBook Have a look!


Posted By: Colin
Date Posted: 24 May 2018 at 23:38
I cannot understand why the shop does not take more responsibility for curating its own products.

It creates confusion and frustrates the most avid collectors.  I applaud the few who have tried to catalogue everything retrospectively and put their reputations out there where no proper records exist. 

I can understand why the early stamps were not documented - no-one though they would have a long run let alone become valuable - but so many years on surely it is time that a proper record was made each year by the only people who truly now the production process, the circulation numbers, reprints, variants etc?  

It would also be interesting to know how the stamps come into being, now that Sir Terry is no longer there to provide the inspiration and add to the back story?  Is there a database of stamps he authorised before he died, were there extra bits of information provided to make the back-stories to the subsequent stamps more interesting in his absence?  How has the creative process changed without the luxury of contact with the creator, how are the artists briefed now that Terry is not there to approve their vision of his Discworld?  We now have book characters appearing on the stamps regularly which was a no-no when we were producing the stamps (with the exception of monarchs or heads of state of course, as in 'regular' stamps) - so has the process changed without Terry's ultimate creative sign-off?

Such information could all be brought togther in a single, official, resource rather than leaving everyone to best-guesses and speculation, year on year.


.




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Happiness doesn't come from getting something we don't have, but through recognising and appreciating what we do have.


Posted By: Steve
Date Posted: 26 May 2018 at 22:38
I am wavering on this. One the one hand it would be nice to have a definitive answer to all the questions that collectors have, especially those regarding the first couple of years. But, then again, it is more fun to actually find these things out for ourselvesDiscovering new things. And Colin, I think you could be as guilty as anybody else. True that when you are questioned your answers are probably closer to the truth. Some answers given out by other inside sources seem to fly in the face of the evidence in my collection, yet are taken as gospel truth by others. One day perhaps I, or someone else, will have the best listings possible.

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https://www.facebook.com/pages/The-Discworld-Stamp-Collector/809424215750892" rel="nofollow - The Discworld Stamp Collector on FaceBook Have a look!


Posted By: Admin
Date Posted: 29 May 2018 at 02:49
[QUOTE=Steve]Colin, I think you could be as guilty as anybody else. True that when you are questioned your answers are probably closer to the truth. /QUOTE]

I can only tell you what I know - but often I am as confused as everyone else because I don't have the figures for stamps issued, all I have is the artwork I designed and and the samples I was given over the years.  

I am very chuffed to find there is now a new wave of collectors who are interested only in the first 5 years of stamps. When I used to collect the Clarecraft Discworld figures, long before DW stamps, the focus was on acquiring the first 25 figures made (all retired by the time I started) as these were the ones that supposedly had the most input from Terry - and I'd like to think it's the same process now at work with the stamps.

But why not start cataloguing the new stamps so that there is absolute clarity about issue numbers, colour variants and so on? With everything now being designed and printed by one team of people and a database going forward for new merchandise, this should be much simpler to achieve than when Alan and I were designing them, various printers and perforators were involved, and every issue we produced was treated as potentially the last.


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I began this forum as a place to discuss and share ALL cinderella stamps. It is my first forum and is not perfect BUT I will endeavour to make it the best available.

Any positive help appreciated!



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